I have to ask, what is the rebuttal to Richard Cotton's assertion that this only effects "wholesale piracy websites outside the USA"? Because no one seemed to be able to come up with one on the show - which is disturbing since I would think the opposition would have a strong counter argument to this.
People (on the show and in this thread) keep saying that what Cotton said isn't true and is deceptive - but where are the factual arguments?
1. Alexis (and the other dude) tried to get to it, but got talked over: It only applies to non-US websites as far as piracy goes, but US websites that contain content describing how to get around the blocks, or US websites that decline to take down links to blocked websites are liable.
2. As Alexis said, it introduces penalties to US citizens for using foreign-hosted sites deemed to be in violation of the act.
3. the notion that it only applies to "wholesale" piracy is garbage. that might be what the NBC dude thought it would mean, but there's no way to unambiguously define what is wholesale piracy and what is casual or inadvertent piracy, and it is ultimately up to the courts to decide who the law applies to and who it doesn't. If some judge wanted to, he could probably use SOPA to take down just about any website with user-generated content. a good law isn't one that's broad and over-reaching and you just hope that it's implemented fairly. a good law is one that is specific, targeted, and difficult to abuse.
4. the point that i'm disappointed that nobody made: the pirate bay is a .org (and nominally a .com), which technically makes it a US site. the NBC guy's prime example of why we need SOPA is immune to SOPA.
> (a) Definition- For purposes of this section, a foreign Internet site or portion thereof is a `foreign infringing site' if--
> (1) the Internet site or portion thereof is a U.S.-directed site and is used by users in the United States;
> (2) the owner or operator of such Internet site is committing or facilitating the commission of criminal violations punishable under section 2318, 2319, 2319A, 2319B, or 2320, or chapter 90, of title 18, United States Code; and
> (3) the Internet site would, by reason of acts described in paragraph (1), be subject to seizure in the United States in an action brought by the Attorney General if such site were a domestic Internet site.
> (1) In general.— Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed—
> (A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;
It does not seem these requirements can be met casually or accidentally.
"US websites that contain content describing how to get around the blocks, or US websites that decline to take down links to blocked websites are liable"
Could you cite the parts of SOPA that led you to this conclusion? I looked here: thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.3261: (there's a colon at the end of the URL) and found only provisions that apply to search engines, ISPs, payment processors and ad networks, not generally "US websites". With regard to anti-circumvention, I found only references to "product or service designed or marketed for the circumvention". I don't think that encompasses "content describing how to get around the blocks".
"The bill would authorize the U.S. Department of Justice to seek court orders against websites outside U.S. jurisdiction accused of infringing on copyrights, or of enabling or facilitating copyright infringement"
A court finding that a site is facilitating copyright infringement seems like a high bar to meet.
The bill defines "foreign infringing sites" as those infringing sites that have their domains registered outside the US, are "US-directed" and "used by users in the United States." This would include, for example, all the sites that use Libya's top-level domain, like bit.ly, but would not include a site like thepiratebay.org, as the US controls the .org top-level domain.
You can check that this is true by reading Sec. 101.3-8 and Sec. 102.1.a. (13 lines of text in total) on the Library of Congress website here:
This doesn't address whether a site is "infringing" or not, but it makes it clear that sites that most people would consider US websites, like bit.ly, can certainly be affected by the bill. Cotton's argument that only foreign sites will be affected is bogus, when you look at the details of what "foreign" means.
That still doesn't explain why Google is opposed to the bill.
I think there's a better explanation that is linked to the enforcement of situations such as "someone googles Pirate Bay and gets a link to the site". SOPA puts Google at fault for this, and I assume the enforcement mechanism could very much harm a US company (Google). Unfortunately, time ran out on the segment right as they were getting to this point.
I wonder what the purpose of requiring Google to remove the links is - when, I would assume, there would be DNS-level blocking of TPB. Wouldn't the links just not work? It would seem like Google could then not worry about policing search results (aside from the desire to remove broken links).
The bill does apparently say that it does not force US based sites, ISPs, Name servers to change their current operations.
NO TECHNOLOGY MANDATES.—Nothing in
title I shall be construed to impose a duty on an en-
tity described in section 102(c) or 103(c) to design
its network, technology, or service to forestall or pre-
vent acts that would actually or potentially create a
cause of action under such title, or to utilize any
particular type of technology to comply with the re-
quirements of such title.
Perhaps someone else can shine some light in how Google could still be victim to increased administrative burden.
When I read that paragraph as a layman, I read two points:
1. A US entity does not have to redesign anything to slow or prevent infringing search results/credit card payments/etc in order to avoid liability
2. No particular type of technology must be utilized to comply: they're explicitly saying they won't require firms to "use PiracyBlocker2001 on your network" or "filter search results with the ProtectLouisVuittonsProfitMargin algorithm" or something to that effect.
You link isn't working for me - but I will take your word. That is an interesting point and seems simple enough for most people to understand, I wonder why it wasn't brought up.
Do you know any details about the "wholesale piracy" portion of the claim? Is it just a matter of setting a dangerous precedent (who defines "wholesale", etc) or is there a more concrete counterpoint in the bill?
Ah, it appears that the HN link parser clips the colon off the end of the URL in my previous post. I fixed the formatting, but the link is no longer clickable. Should be copy/pasteable.
About the "wholesale piracy" bit: that's also wrong. The bill would apply to an "an Internet site, or a portion thereof" ... "primarily designed or operated for the purpose of" piracy. (Sec 103.a.1.A-B) Links on bit.ly (for example) that pointed to illegal downloads would fall into that category. The phrase "portion of" is not compatible with Cotton's "wholesale" description.
For me, the worst part is that the bill targets sites "facilitating the commission of criminal violations," (Sec 102.a.2) related to copyright law, rather than actually committing the criminal violations. If this were in the realm of guns rather than copyright, it would make every gun magazine publisher a criminal. In general, speech about crime is different than crime itself, especially when the activity at hand can be criminal or noncriminal in different circumstances.
I agree the "or portion thereof" part is unclear and could be interpreted as enabling courts to DNS-block a domain on which any amount of infringement is going on. For example ISPs will be required to "prevent the domain name of the foreign infringing site (or portion thereof) from resolving". What the hell does "domain name of a portion of a site" mean?
Regarding the "facilitating" part, notice it is just one of three items in a definition. ALL of these items have to be satisfied. Let's not spread FUD here.
This has been a big information failing from the anti-SOPA side. Reddit have come out and said that it would be too expensive for reddit to remain in operation if SOPA passes, so the site would have to shut down.
I see no evidence that it would effect reddit's operations in any way. From googling around for 5 minutes, it seems that Cotton is correct on this point.
(B) INTERNET SEARCH ENGINES- A provider of an Internet search engine shall take technically feasible and reasonable measures, as expeditiously as possible, but in any case within 5 days after being served with a copy of the order, or within such time as the court may order, designed to prevent the foreign infringing site that is subject to the order, or a portion of such site specified in the order, from being served as a direct hypertext link.
(D) INTERNET ADVERTISING SERVICES-
(i) REQUIRED ACTIONS- An Internet advertising service that contracts to provide advertising to or for the foreign infringing site, or portion thereof, that is subject to the order, or that knowingly serves advertising to or for such site or such portion thereof, shall take technically feasible and reasonable measures, as expeditiously as possible, but in any case within 5 days after being served with a copy of the order, or within such time as the court may order, designed to--
(I) prevent its service from providing advertisements to or relating to the foreign infringing site that is subject to the order or a portion of such site specified in the order;
(II) cease making available advertisements for the foreign infringing site or such portion thereof, or paid or sponsored search results, links, or other placements that provide access to such foreign infringing site or such portion thereof; and
(III) cease providing or receiving any compensation for advertising or related services to, from, or in connection with such foreign infringing site or such portion thereof.
(ii) NO DUTY TO MONITOR- An internet advertising service shall be considered to be in compliance with clause (i) if it takes action described in that clause with respect to accounts it has as of the date on which a copy of the order is served, or as of the date on which the order is amended under subsection (e).
I'm not sure how to quantify the number of sites Google would be forced to deal with on a daily basis if this legislation were to pass, but I suspect the number could be quite large. Registering hosting and/or domains is a trivial task.
Cotton's proposal that immunity was provided to Search Engines and Ad Networks is laughable. Here are the bill's actual claims:
(A) IMMUNITY FROM SUIT- Other than in an action pursuant to paragraph (4), no cause of action shall lie in any Federal or State court or administrative agency against any entity served with a copy of a court order issued under this subsection, or against any director, officer, employee, or agent thereof, for any act reasonably designed to comply with this subsection or reasonably arising from such order.
(B) IMMUNITY FROM LIABILITY- Other than in an action pursuant to paragraph (4)--
It promises immunity... Except for repercussions due to not correctly acting on the courts orders in a timely manner. So not only is there no real immunity, but there's a burden placed on businesses to immediately comply or 'else'.
Moreover, imagine that later down the road you were unlucky enough to purchase one of the domains that had been blacklisted. In order to be listed in a search index, receieve advertising revenue or conduct payments, you would need to file a motion with the court to lift the ban. An innocent person, who has never been found guilty of doing any harm, would be required to jump through legal hurdles in order to exist on the internet.
(d) Modification or Vacation of Orders-
(1) IN GENERAL- At any time after the issuance of an order under subsection (b), a motion to modify, suspend, or vacate the order may be filed by--
(A) any person, or owner or operator of property, that is subject to the order;
(B) any registrant of the domain name, or the owner or operator, of the Internet site that is subject to the order;
(C) any domain name registrar, registry, or other domain name registration authority that has registered or assigned the domain name of the Internet site that is subject to the order; or
(D) any entity that has been served with a copy of an order pursuant to subsection (c) that requires such entity to take action prescribed in that subsection.
(2) RELIEF- Relief under this subsection shall be proper if the court finds that--
(A) the foreign Internet site subject to the order is no longer, or never was, a foreign infringing site; or
(B) the interests of justice otherwise require that the order be modified, suspended, or vacated.
----
I'm going to continue paging through the bill, but I think this response is adequate to rebuke Cotton's assertion that this only effects "wholesale piracy websites outside of the USA". None of the parties I mentioned above were pirates, nor were they necessarily foreign entities.
People (on the show and in this thread) keep saying that what Cotton said isn't true and is deceptive - but where are the factual arguments?