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I see your point. It's not a great analogy though. He was a revolutionary, but he was not a terrorist.


The way you phrased your comment can only lead to arguing semantics of the word “terrorist”. As risk to the establishment, a “subversive” can always be framed as a terrorist with a little bit of creativity.

Can you volunteer a significant difference between Franklin and a modern-day terrorist from the establishment ruler's standpoint?


Yes, I just meant that he didn't orchestrate and/or carry out the murders of innocent people with the sole purpose of inciting terror.

I don't think there's much to argue about here.


He didn't intentionally kill or maim civilian targets with the goal of inciting terror?


Yeah Franklin is a guy who has some of the same interests and values as you. You could imagine having dinner with him. You could imagine being him.

The modern terrorist is none of these things.


It's a shame this comment got downvoted. Be it serious or tongue-in-cheek, it was very enlightening.


But Che Guevara makes a better T-shirt


Not really, he tends to screw up the stitching round the collar.


< bows down > ;-) < / bows down >


I totally agree. These bloody modern terrorists, not sharing our views and customs. Bet they don't even play cricket. Very uncouth. You'd think that half of them had grown up in a war zone or something, the way they go on. Pass the gin.

Not like the old historic terrorists, no, those lot had style. They were on our side for one thing, made us a lot of money in the long run. And they look bloody good in paintings. Oh look, the gins run out. I'll go find some rum.


Extremists on your side are revolutionaries.

Extremists not on your side are terrorists.


Extremists that win are revolutionaries

Extremists that lose are terrorists

If we aren't sure yet they are insurgents

If it ends with nobody winning and the leaders getting Nobel peace prizes (N.Ireland) then they were all just folk dancers that got out of hand.


I don't think that Betty Williams or Mairead Maguire could be described as extremists, John Hume and David Trimble were not at the extreme end of their respective sides in the conflict either. 'Folk dancers', well if you feel happy about that comment thats up to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Williams_%28Nobel_laureat... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mairead_Maguire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hume http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Trimble


Yes it's odd how afterwards there were no terrorists, they had been no civil war and yet a few politicians an arms length from the Armalites all got Nobel Prizes for solving a problem that never happened.


I'm going to guess that the loyalists of the day couldn't tell much difference.


Material supporter?


Would have been if he had lost


Who did he terrorize?


The British?


There was the 20% of the population that actively opposed the revolution many of whom were attacked had their property seized and were eventually forced to move to Canada. As well as the majority who really just wanted everything to carry on peacefully

Alternatively it could be that 100% of the population fully supported the revolution leading to a universal popular uprising of the oppressed - just like Russia in 1917!


A partisan wouldn't find it hard to call what happened after the war as a sort of ethnic cleansing, though more on political lines than ethnic.

On top of that, numerous civilians, particularly those in positions of authority, were subject to a sort of low key terrorism, such as being dipped in hot tar or having their homes burned down. Even being a child of such an official was solid grounds for being attacked. And in the South, people were actually murdered for having Loyalist sympathies.

This was actively encouraged by the leadership, by the way, not some decentralized mob violence. On reports that this was happening in New York, for instance, a military official put an halt to it. On hearing this, George Washington immediately intervened to allow it and upbraided the officer for hurting the revolutionary cause.

Not actually making the case that American rebels were evil terrorists: just making the case that making such a case wouldn't be too difficult for someone with an agenda, given the standards of how we label things terrorism nowadays.


The records show 100% of the population were on board.


And that we have always been at war with Eastasia.


If 100% of the population was on-board, then who did they rise up against? Even if it's a single leader, he/she is still part of the population of a country.


I was satiring totalitarian states that tend to produce fake nonsense statistics about how popular they are.

e.g. in 2002 Saddam Hussein was re-elected President of Iraq. He got 100% of the votes, and there was 100% turnout ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/oct/16/iraq )


Yes they always do!




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